<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">First, the fact that there EXISTS a “Technical level” section in this blog is fundamental.<div class="">(and yes, I am a fan of Kellogg’s blogs, too, even if I don’t agree with him always).<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">First, at that time, technical considerations STILL EXISTED.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">E.g. could one of you tell me the technical detail implementations between CouchDB and MongoDB !?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Huh !? They are both just quickly put together hacks, without any architecture….and no-one, including their own engineers and their</div><div class="">own customers CARES or even KNOWS about the technical details. Tons of my database friends went to work for Mongo and then left in 2-3 months</div><div class="">screaming ….</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">(I wonder if you ask the average MongoDb “database” developer what a page locking is if you even get an answer…:-)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">===========</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Second, yes, sure business wars always existed and will always exist. And it’s a good thing.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Trust me, working at Oracle for 8 years, I’ve seen my share of “business wars” and related strategies…...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But when Kellogg cites Geoffrey Moore’s “tornado’.</div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">"The tornado refers to </span><a href="http://www.tcg-advisors.com/who/moore.htm" style="border: 0px; font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(0, 96, 255); font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">Geoffrey Moore’s</a> <span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">metaphor for the hypergrowth phase of a high-tech, infrastructure market.</span><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">”</span></font></div><div class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class=""><br class=""></span></font></div><div class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">I agree that during such a “tornado”… the best is to acquire as many customers as possible.</span></font></div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">But Moore refers to a REAL customer growth tornado, not an current ARTIFICIAL growth that is 100% due to the pressure from VCs </span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">— they need </span></font></span><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">to reimburse the money back to the pension funds they took it from in a fixed interval of X years.</span></div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">I am 100% convinced that this “database bubble” is artificially inflated by VCs billions poured in. More and more articles by Forbes show that </span></font></span><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">—</span></font></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">enterprises play with the new solutions, but few actually deploy those solutions.</span></font></span></div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">This is not only, as it was in the 80 and 90, only a matter of who has the best sales team, and gets the EXISTING projects. (and yes, Oracle did..)</span></div><div class=""><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">This artificial bubble pushes vendors to become idiot zombies: create “customers" out thin air, bullshiting the few who are open to buy new things into </span></font></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">believing in aliens, and completely treat them like idiots by ignoring the state of the art.</span></font></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class=""><br class=""></span></font></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">This is not a case of Moore’s tornado.</span></font></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class=""><br class=""></span></font></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class="">One more day passed… one more day closer to the death of this database bubble… :-)</span></font></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class=""><br class=""></span></font></span></div><div class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Have a great day,</span></font></div><div class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Dana</span></font></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="Georgia, Bitstream Charter, serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px;" class=""><br class=""></span></font></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 16, 2015, at 1:02 PM, Ihe Onwuka <<a href="mailto:ihe.onwuka@gmail.com" class="">ihe.onwuka@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Remember Ingres. Here is the story of what Oracle did to them. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="http://kellblog.com/2006/04/08/ingres-can-you-ever-go-back/" target="_blank" class="">http://kellblog.com/2006/04/08/ingres-can-you-ever-go-back/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Undoubtedly you can parse the engineering considerations better than I (see At a product level) but pay attention to what is said in "At the business level" and in particular the reference to failing to understand the tornado.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 12:26 PM, daniela florescu <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:dflorescu@me.com" target="_blank" class="">dflorescu@me.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br class="">
Michael,<br class="">
<br class="">
believe it or not, I think it got worse since the days of Larry Ellison (as bas and aggressive as it was… :-)<br class="">
<br class="">
The first generation of databases grew organically, with their customer base … they were busy fighting SPLITTING an exiting market<br class="">
which was naturally growing. Those databases were DB2(IBM), Oracle, SQL Sever. None of them had a VC behind it….<br class="">
<br class="">
The new generation of databases (Cloudera, DataStax, Mongo. CouchDB. MarkLogic…etc) are NOT growing organically.<br class="">
<br class="">
They are all financed by Venture Capitalists. They all took between 100M and 200M, sometimes more, investment money from VCs.<br class="">
(And I can tell you, lending money from VCs is worse then lending money from the mafia….. if you don’t give it back… they’ll find you ….)<br class="">
<br class="">
A VC naturally wants his investment returned 50X (or whatever X they want) in a fixed amount of time (2-5 years, or whatever). This is how VC world works.<br class="">
<br class="">
So…. this new generation of databases, being financed by VCs, CANNOT grow naturally and organically with the market…..<br class="">
<br class="">
Their growth speed is imposed by the VCs, and not by the market growth.<br class="">
<br class="">
They have to pull customers out of their a..s. They have to create artificial customers.<br class="">
<br class="">
They have to go to each other’s throat for the meager number of customers.<br class="">
<br class="">
Hence the general hysteria.<br class="">
<br class="">
===========<br class="">
<br class="">
Hence all the horrible things that happens right now in the “database” industry, marketing screams all over the place, idiotic marketing messages<br class="">
(scale to the level of the “universe”..), bogus benchmarks, query languages that don’t NEED a specification, proprietary syntaxes to cover an existing standard<br class="">
— because a standard would reduce the value of the company— bullying every single blogger in the industry to say what you want, physically<br class="">
abusing people who dare to say something else, bribing of officials of all kinds…..<br class="">
<br class="">
Gold rush, here we come again.<br class="">
<br class="">
Science ( temporarely I hope ), left this field.<br class="">
<br class="">
How good a product is irrelevant right now. You can see that by watching the amount of money spent by this generation of databases in marketing and sales vs. engineering.<br class="">
Usually it’s 10X. This was not true for Oracle, even if they did spend a large amount on sales.<br class="">
<br class="">
My hope is that when the database bubble will crash, soon, VCs will finally get disappointed, and finally move away to another field, like locusts, so<br class="">
we can come back and bring some scientific interest into this field.<br class="">
<br class="">
But, yeah, I’ve never seen ANYTHING like what’s going on right now with the database companies in Sillicon Valley…..<br class="">
<br class="">
Best<br class="">
Dana<br class="">
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