<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 23, 2015, at 9:14 AM, Ihe Onwuka <<a href="mailto:ihe.onwuka@gmail.com" class="">ihe.onwuka@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Well he didn't comment on SQL for JSON per se but saying that RDBMS are sub-optimal for everything is a tacit repudiation of SQL is it not?</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>No, because he said exploitively that the *internals* of a database will be different (columnar, main memory, streaming, etc)….. the</div><div>programming language will STILL be SQL. Or at least for all those databases for whom the data model is STILL relational. </div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">He buys into the notion that there will be swarms of data scientists doing clever things with data which will need a different language.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div></div><div>Yes. SQL clearly doesn’t solve the R use cases. So yes, R is on the “acceptable OTHER languages” list.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>But that’s not clear that what we (aka the XML community see) as “normal” data processing use cases will be considered necessary use cases</div><div>for the JSON/NoSQL community.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>E.g. scanning the data and automatically extracting a schema. Is this an acceptable use case for JSON ? Or not ?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>If yes, then XQuery has a chance, because XQuery can do that and SQL cannot. </div><div><br class=""></div><div>If no, people will stick to what they know : SQL.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">He is right that statistical packages suck at data management but that won't isn't going to deter the R community. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Yes, the R implementations (I looked at them in details about 2 years ago) have NO IDEA about how to deal with large volumes </div><div>of data, so probably a mix between data technologies and database technologies is necessary.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>However, don’t underestimate companies like Oracle. They are not dummies, and the know what the market wants.</div><div>R is supported natively inside the Oracle database now.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I think that Stonebreaker exaggerates when he says that relational databases will disappear in 10 years. Well… I don’t think</div><div>this will happen so quickly.</div><div><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Do you see XQuery fitting anywhere in this vision. It has potential as a pipeling technology as does for that matter SQL. I think it will always be problematic to do analytics on the source data because it is too dirty.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>XQuery COULD be a very good “glue” language between data in various formats (CSV, Excel, PDF, HTML, XML, JSON, relational, whatever).</div><div><br class=""></div><div>But I say “COULD” not “CAN”.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>It needs many extensions to be good at that: scripting, support for JSON, modules to support a variety of data formats and data processing services.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div>Best regards</div><div>Dana</div><br class=""><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div>P.S. </div><div><br class=""></div><div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">I am continually surprised that people this smart believe that there is such a pool of data scientists people to draw from.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Me too. I fell down from my chair when I saw the article saying that US needs 5 million data scientists in the next 2 years, aka, about 5% of the</div><div>US working population. Not sure if this for laughing, or for crying. </div><div><br class=""></div><div>[[ aka, we will not have cashiers at Safeway anymore ‘cause they are all data scientists….]]</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Someone up there doing the math in this article doesn’t understand jack nothing about numbers and statistics …….</div><div><br class=""></div><div>And all this while:</div><div><a href="http://www.nature.com/news/irreproducible-biology-research-costs-put-at-28-billion-per-year-1.17711?utm_content=buffer95bfb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin.com&utm_campaign=buffer" class="">http://www.nature.com/news/irreproducible-biology-research-costs-put-at-28-billion-per-year-1.17711?utm_content=buffer95bfb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin.com&utm_campaign=buffer</a></div><div><br class=""></div><div>God knows how many medicines are wrongly given to sick people, because nobody knows how to do a proper case study … </div><div>REALLY scary … but that’s another discussion.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div>Again the same discussion comes up: DON”T look for 5 million data scientists. Just do with a smaller number of smart ones, but GIVE</div><div>THEM BETTER TOOLS and AUTOMATIZE THE PROCESS.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>But hey, how can you stop such a wold wide enthusiasm for “data scientists” !?? Logic doesn’t do it….</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 11:51 AM, daniela florescu <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:dflorescu@me.com" target="_blank" class="">dflorescu@me.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">Ihe,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I had discussions with Michael Stonebreaker for 20 years about about the fact that</div><div class="">XML “exists” or not. With Jim Gray too, before he disappeared. They were both extremely</div><div class="">supportive for me, yet were both thinking that I am crazy to waste my research career on XML.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Stonebreaker’s opinion: he doesn’t believe that XML “exists” in industry.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So he will not mention it, because it doesn’t exist :-)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But you have to remember that Stonebreaker is a database person. Probably he will not</div><div class="">understand the facet of XML which is “XML as documents”. It took me and the other database </div><div class="">people involved in XQuery years before we swallowed it. (Don Chamberlin of SQL fame</div><div class="">famously once said “who in the world would care about such a corner case as mixed content !?").</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Don’t blame the database people that they don’t “get” XML. On one hand, it has never been explained</div><div class="">to them properly.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And again, Stonebreaker, being a database person, he will look at “XML as data” aspect of the story.</div><div class="">And this today is INDEED non-existing in industry, or almost. Or, when t is, it is mostly for log analysis.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">============</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">JSON will completely change the landscape, in surprising ways, that none of us can predict.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And no, I trust that Michael Stonebreaker is too smart to believe that SQL is a solution to process JSON.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But time will tell.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best regards</div><div class="">Dana</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><span class=""><div class="">On Jun 23, 2015, at 12:15 AM, Ihe Onwuka <<a href="mailto:ihe.onwuka@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">ihe.onwuka@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""></span><div class=""><span class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K0SWs1mOD0" target="_blank" class="">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K0SWs1mOD0</a><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">By implication it puts the kibosh on SQL as the basis of a solution for the future.</div></div></span>
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